Computational math - Revision history

Kevin Wang: /* Historical status */

2023-08-27T18:54:47Z

Historical status

Kevin Wang: /* Historical status */

2023-08-27T18:54:30Z

Historical status

Kevin Wang at 20:28, 3 February 2022

2022-02-03T20:28:55Z

June Yin: /* Theory */

2022-01-31T23:00:00Z

Theory

June Yin: /* Theory */

2022-01-31T22:59:33Z

Theory

Kevin Wang at 16:09, 6 January 2022

2022-01-06T16:09:59Z

June Yin: /* State formats */

2021-09-24T07:45:23Z

State formats

June Yin: /* State formats */

2021-09-24T07:44:40Z

State formats

June Yin: /* State formats */

2021-09-24T07:42:16Z

State formats

Kevin Wang: /* High school */

2021-09-22T00:46:15Z

High school

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 {{right quote box|{{qq|4) PENCIL AND PAPER READY. [[Yi Sun]] wants to calculate how to make computational questions compatible with good quizbowl.
 He starts by making 13 posts in the "An Open Letter to NAQT" thread about the Alexander-Leftchetz duality, but loses 40% of his argument's validity by agreeing with [[Brad Fischer]].
-Reaching a dead end, he convinces [[Tom Egan]] to make X7 edits to the [[Computational math|Computational Math]] page on the qbwiki, where x represents the [[Doug O'Neal|O'Neal]]s Handwave index calculated to the nearest [[Watson Ladd]] integral.
+Reaching a dead end, he convinces [[Tom Egan]] to make X7 edits to the Computational Math page on the qbwiki, where x represents the [[Doug O'Neal|O'Neal]]s Handwave index calculated to the nearest [[Watson Ladd]] integral.
 Still not finding a satisfactory answer, Yi studies the 30 canonical types of NAQT math problems for 6 hours, applying a Fourier Transform to the 425 character limit, printing out the result, and accidentally using the paper in place of a substituted alkene while performing a Diels-Alder reaction for his orgo class.
 The subsequent explosion kills him so he is not able to finish the problem.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:54, 27 August 2023
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	==Historical status==		==Historical status==
		+	{{right quote box\|{{qq\|4) PENCIL AND PAPER READY. [[Yi Sun]] wants to calculate how to make computational questions compatible with good quizbowl.
		+	He starts by making 13 posts in the "An Open Letter to NAQT" thread about the Alexander-Leftchetz duality, but loses 40% of his argument's validity by agreeing with [[Brad Fischer]].
		+	Reaching a dead end, he convinces [[Tom Egan]] to make X7 edits to the [[Computational math\|Computational Math]] page on the qbwiki, where x represents the [[Doug O'Neal\|O'Neal]]s Handwave index calculated to the nearest [[Watson Ladd]] integral.
		+	Still not finding a satisfactory answer, Yi studies the 30 canonical types of NAQT math problems for 6 hours, applying a Fourier Transform to the 425 character limit, printing out the result, and accidentally using the paper in place of a substituted alkene while performing a Diels-Alder reaction for his orgo class.
		+	The subsequent explosion kills him so he is not able to finish the problem.
		+	For no points, give a funeral oration which explains for Yi why computational math questions make good quizbowl.
		+
		+	ANSWER: There is no acceptable answer to this question (i.e. there is no way for teams to earn points on
		+	this question. Still deduct points if a team negs (credit this on tossup 26 on the scoresheet))
		+
		+	-2008 [[Gunpei Yokoi Memorial Open]]
		+	}}}}
	The role computational math should play in high school quizbowl has been one of the most hotly debated subjects in the history of the [[hsquizbowl.org forums\|Quizbowl Resource Center forums]]. Eventually, the growing consensus of players, teachers, and [[coaches]] across state lines solidified in their opposition to math computation questions, driving its decline in nationally-oriented formats and tournament sets. Computational math is often controversial in formats that do have it, while it is rarely missed in those that do not.		The role computational math should play in high school quizbowl has been one of the most hotly debated subjects in the history of the [[hsquizbowl.org forums\|Quizbowl Resource Center forums]]. Eventually, the growing consensus of players, teachers, and [[coaches]] across state lines solidified in their opposition to math computation questions, driving its decline in nationally-oriented formats and tournament sets. Computational math is often controversial in formats that do have it, while it is rarely missed in those that do not.

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:28, 3 February 2022
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−	<onlyinclude>'''Computational math''' (or '''comp math''') is a type of [[math]] [[question]] which asks [[players]] to solve a mathematics problem instead of identifying a conceptual answer from verbal clues. These questions are also referred to as "'''[[pencil and paper ready]]'''" questions, as all [[NAQT]] computation questions begin with that phrase - however, this term can also refer to questions which require players to write down a list, or [[science]] questions that require use of a scientific law, formula, or other computation to get a numerical answer.	+	<onlyinclude>'''Computational math''' (or '''comp math''') is a type of [[math]] [[question]] which asks [[players]] to solve a mathematics problem instead of identifying a conceptual answer from verbal clues. These questions are also referred to as "'''pencil and paper ready'''" questions, as all [[NAQT]] computation questions begin with that phrase - however, this term can also refer to questions which require players to write down a list, or [[science]] questions that require use of a scientific law, formula, or other computation to get a numerical answer.

	Comp math can be considered the counterpart of "theoretical math".</onlyinclude>		Comp math can be considered the counterpart of "theoretical math".</onlyinclude>

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 Most of the objection to computational math comes from the use of computational [[tossups]], which are inherently [[non-pyramidal]]. This is because there is only a single problem being described by a tossup - the bulk of question consists of simpler rephrasings or hints on the methods required, rather than [[clues]]. This objection has largely prevailed over arguments for computation - for a more in-depth look at arguments for and against comp math, see the "Historical" section below.
-Computation bonuses have survived longer in ostensibly "[[good quizbowl]]" sets such as the [[VHSL]] sets produced by [[HSAPQ]] and [[NAQT]], as well as the [[HSNCT]]. In general, though, most sets with a national audience have abandoned computation bonuses simply because it is difficult to solve any non-trivial math problem in 5 or fewer seconds and giving teams more time often delays the game.
+Computation [[bonus]]es have survived longer in "[[good quizbowl]]" sets such as the [[VHSL]] sets produced by [[HSAPQ]] and [[NAQT]], as well as the [[HSNCT]]. In general, though, most sets with a national audience have abandoned computation bonuses simply because it is difficult to solve any non-trivial math problem in 5 or fewer seconds and giving teams more time often delays the game.
 ==Status in modern quiz bowl==

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 Most of the objection to computational math comes from the use of computational [[tossups]], which are inherently [[non-pyramidal]]. This is because there is only a single problem being described by a tossup - the bulk of question consists of simpler rephrasings or hints on the methods required, rather than [[clues]]. This objection has largely prevailed over arguments for computation - for a more in-depth look at arguments for and against comp math, see the "Historical" section below.
-Computation bonuses have survived longer in ostensibly-"[[good quizbowl|good]]" quizbowl sets such as the [[VHSL]] sets produced by [[HSAPQ]] and [[NAQT]] and the [[HSNCT]]. In general, though, most sets with a national audience have abandoned computation bonuses simply because it is difficult to solve any non-trivial math problem in 5 or fewer seconds and giving teams more time often delays the game.
+Computation bonuses have survived longer in ostensibly "[[good quizbowl]]" sets such as the [[VHSL]] sets produced by [[HSAPQ]] and [[NAQT]], as well as the [[HSNCT]]. In general, though, most sets with a national audience have abandoned computation bonuses simply because it is difficult to solve any non-trivial math problem in 5 or fewer seconds and giving teams more time often delays the game.
 ==Status in modern quiz bowl==

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 Most of the objection to computational math comes from the use of computational [[tossups]], which are inherently [[non-pyramidal]]. This is because there is only a single problem being described by a tossup - the bulk of question consists of simpler rephrasings or hints on the methods required, rather than [[clues]]. This objection has largely prevailed over arguments for computation - for a more in-depth look at arguments for and against comp math, see the "Historical" section below.
-Computation bonuses have survived longer in ostensibly-good quizbowl sets such as the [[VHSL]] sets produced by [[HSAPQ]] and [[NAQT]] and the [[HSNCT]]. In general, though, most sets with a national audience have abandoned computation bonuses simply because it is difficult to solve any non-trivial math problem in 5 or fewer seconds and giving teams more time often delays the game.
+Computation bonuses have survived longer in ostensibly-"[[good quizbowl|good]]" quizbowl sets such as the [[VHSL]] sets produced by [[HSAPQ]] and [[NAQT]] and the [[HSNCT]]. In general, though, most sets with a national audience have abandoned computation bonuses simply because it is difficult to solve any non-trivial math problem in 5 or fewer seconds and giving teams more time often delays the game.
 ==Status in modern quiz bowl==
@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 ===High school===
-The amount of computational math in the high school game varies significantly from format to format and from state to state. The majority of states which participate in [[good quizbowl]] do not have any comp math, the culmination of a steady decline in its popularity that started in the mid-2000s. This means that top teams which do not participate in a state format can go the entire season without playing a computational question.
+The amount of computational math in the high school game varies significantly from format to format and from state to state. The majority of states which participate in "[[good quizbowl]]" do not have any comp math, the culmination of a steady decline in its popularity that started in the mid-2000s. This means that top teams which do not participate in a state format can go the entire season without playing a computational question.
 Almost every high school housewrite has zero computational math. [[PACE]] does not include any computation questions in their tournament sets and [[HSAPQ]] (while it was still extant) did not either. [[NAQT]] is the sole national question vendor which still sells sets containing computational math tossups, but individual [[hosts]] of NAQT sets may choose to skip over the computational questions at their own tournaments.
@@ Line 44: / Line 44: @@
 |-
 |Quizbowl can be defined it as an activity that, on a certain minority of questions, includes computation, rather than one that does not.
-|Quizbowl is typically defined as an activity which tests knowledge. Further, "good quizbowl" is defined as quizbowl that preferentially rewards knowledge over other skills. Because computational math requires an additional skill beyond the simple recall of facts and association of facts with an answer, it is not good quizbowl.
+|Quizbowl is typically defined as an activity which tests knowledge. Further, "good quizbowl" is defined as quizbowl that preferentially rewards knowledge over other skills. Because computational math requires an additional skill beyond the simple recall of facts and association of facts with an answer, it is not "good quizbowl".
 |-
 |Any relevant topic with a single answer that can be quickly judged as "right" or "wrong" can be used in quizbowl - this is true of computational math.
-|The principle underlying pyramidality is that questions should be able to distinguish between players based on their knowledge of a subject. It is not sufficient for a topic to have an answer which can be ruled correct or incorrect to be considered good quizbowl (or even quizbowl).
+|The principle underlying pyramidality is that questions should be able to distinguish between players based on their knowledge of a subject. It is not sufficient for a topic to have an answer which can be ruled correct or incorrect to be considered "good quizbowl" (or even quizbowl).
 |-
 |Computational speed is not the only deciding factor for who answers a computational problem first (assuming they are well written); recall of algorithms and equations also matters and is a form of [[knowledge]].
@@ Line 61: / Line 61: @@
 |-
 |People who don't like computational math "hate math", are "bad at" math, or are "nerds" who only care about history, science, and art, and don't know anything with applicability to the real world.
-|Most people who understand both [[good quizbowl]] and math, including math majors and math teachers, oppose computational math and would like to see more questions on math theory instead.
+|Most people who understand both "[[good quizbowl]]" and math, including math majors and math teachers, oppose computational math and would like to see more questions on math theory instead.
 |}

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 ====State formats====
-Many state formats still have significant amounts of comp math. Until 2022, computation comprised up to 20-25% of the entire distribution of the [[MSHSAA]] state series; it has since been lowered to NAQT's standard 1/1 per packet. [[VHSL]] also retains computational math.
+Many state formats still have significant amounts of comp math. Until 2022, computation comprised up to 20-25% of the entire distribution of the [[MSHSAA]] state series; it has since been lowered to NAQT's standard 1 tossup and bonus per packet. [[VHSL]] also retains computational math.
 Historically, the [[IHSA]] state series used math questions that were almost exclusively computational. That coupled with occasional computational science questions meant that over 20 percent of all questions were computational. Pressure to adhere to quizbowl standards caused the IHSA to agree to include at least one non-computational math tossup per round (out of the 4 math tossups in each round). Controversy arose in 2012 during a match at the IHSA State Finals between [[IMSA]] and [[Auburn]] when moderator [[Tom Egan]] noted that the packet in use did not meet the set’s Terms and Conditions because all its math tossups were computational. The head editor, Sister John Baricevic, acknowledged the mistake but had no recourse since all the replacement math tossups were also computational. In 2016, [[Noah Prince]] served as the math editor for the [[IHSA]] and wrote the first state series without computational math tossups. That practice has continued since 2018 under the head editorship of [[Brad Fischer]].

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 Almost every high school housewrite has zero computational math. [[PACE]] does not include any computation questions in their tournament sets and [[HSAPQ]] (while it was still extant) did not either. [[NAQT]] is the sole national question vendor which still sells sets containing computational math tossups, but individual [[hosts]] of NAQT sets may choose to skip over the computational questions at their own tournaments.
-The [[HSNCT]] still uses computation bonuses at the rate of about 1 such bonus per game - computation tossups were eliminated from [[2010 HSNCT|2010]] forward based on several years of surveys given to attending teams about their preferences.<ref>[http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8109 Computation questions and the 2010 HSNCT] by [[Important Bird Area]] » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:22 pm</ref>. The [[Old PACE format]] for [[NSC]] featured a computation bonus in its "Category Quiz" round until it was phased out in 2010. Therefore, it is eminently possible for the best high school team in the country to become a legitimate national champion without focusing on computational math at all.
+The [[HSNCT]] still uses computation bonuses at the rate of about 1 such bonus per game - computation tossups were eliminated from [[2010 HSNCT|2010]] forward based on several years of surveys given to attending teams about their preferences.<ref>[http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8109 Computation questions and the 2010 HSNCT] by [[Important Bird Area]] » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:22 pm</ref> The [[Old PACE format]] for [[NSC]] featured a computation bonus in its "Category Quiz" round until it was phased out in 2010. Therefore, it is eminently possible for the best high school team in the country to become a legitimate national champion without focusing on computational math at all.
 ====State formats====