Talk:John Augustyn - Revision history

Jonah Greenthal: per subject request; keeping history available in case of disputes

2026-01-07T14:53:29Z

per subject request; keeping history available in case of disputes

Show changes

John Augustyn: a response

2023-07-09T02:12:58Z

a response

George Tagtmeier: /* Exams and Debate on IAC as a "quizbowl orginization" */

2023-04-25T02:08:16Z

Exams and Debate on IAC as a "quizbowl orginization"

George Tagtmeier: /* Exams and Debate on IAC as a "quizbowl orginization" */

2023-04-25T02:00:13Z

Exams and Debate on IAC as a "quizbowl orginization"

John Augustyn: long-awaited response that probably nobody wanted

2023-04-08T09:35:48Z

long-awaited response that probably nobody wanted

George Tagtmeier at 01:14, 31 December 2022

2022-12-31T01:14:08Z

John Augustyn: Added Responses to talk page

2022-12-30T05:50:24Z

Added Responses to talk page

George Tagtmeier at 22:48, 29 December 2022

2022-12-29T22:48:05Z

John Augustyn: Further responses in my talk page

2022-12-29T01:34:18Z

Further responses in my talk page

John Augustyn: Added a significant additional response to a discussion page.

2022-12-29T01:15:50Z

Added a significant additional response to a discussion page.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:12, 9 July 2023
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	:::::NAQT Player of the Week is both an opinion and an award. The hosts of FTP, being fairly well-versed in quizbowl, make the determination of a terminator in a similar sense. I would be open to a debate over whether an accomplishment like that should be included, but as of right now, I think that it is [https://www.qbwiki.com/wiki/QBWiki:Rules#Content "true and relevant"] enough to quizbowl to stay.		:::::NAQT Player of the Week is both an opinion and an award. The hosts of FTP, being fairly well-versed in quizbowl, make the determination of a terminator in a similar sense. I would be open to a debate over whether an accomplishment like that should be included, but as of right now, I think that it is [https://www.qbwiki.com/wiki/QBWiki:Rules#Content "true and relevant"] enough to quizbowl to stay.
	::-[[User:John Augustyn\|John Augustyn]] ([[User talk:John Augustyn\|talk]]) 4:35, 8 April 2023 (CDT)		::-[[User:John Augustyn\|John Augustyn]] ([[User talk:John Augustyn\|talk]]) 4:35, 8 April 2023 (CDT)
		+
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		+	::::::Over the course of the last few months, I have realized that your arguments were very helpful and constructive suggestions, and that my motives were by comparison, unwarranted. I have taken them to heart and adjusted my page accordingly.
		+	::-[[User:John Augustyn\|John Augustyn]] ([[User talk:John Augustyn\|talk]]) 9:12, 8 July 2023 (CDT)

@@ Line 97: / Line 97: @@
 ::::::You stated "This is the only time that such an upset has happened in IAC National Championship Exam history" discussing a test that was administered at lunch (if I remember IAC correctly).
 ::::::The QBWiki "Long pages" special page. Not sure which editors you are referencing, as zero have come to your defense here. You reverted back to edits you made in the past, not added anything new, so I'm not sure what you mean about your increasing participation.
 == Inclusion of Statistics ==

@@ Line 91: / Line 91: @@
 ::::::Source for the claim that my page is one of the longest for an hser? I don't see one, and your comment implies that me "blanking my page" would be better than the pre-December status quo. There is no violation of the rules in my page. Moreover, what is noteworthy is debatable. I debate that my page is fine as it is, and the opinions of frequent editors other than you reflect that. If anything, the page is less bloated, considering my increasing participation in the quizbowl community compared to when this article was first written.
 ::-[[User:John Augustyn|John Augustyn]] ([[User talk:John Augustyn|talk]]) 4:35, 8 April 2023 (CDT)
 == Inclusion of Statistics ==

@@ Line 83: / Line 83: @@
 :::::If by "terms of service" you mean privacy policy, the privacy policy isn't very helpful here. Not everything that is acceptable for the wiki should be on the wiki. The lunch upset quote was from you, you discussed how you led an upset of an exam in the page prior to it being deleted. We can further discuss what should and should not be included, as there are no formal rules there, but as of right now, you have one of the longest personal pages, especially for a high schooler. I am going to once again cut down the page in length to bring it into line with other pages, while preserving noteworthy and contextually important quizbowl achievements. The page is probably still too long even after trimming, but it's closer at least.
 :::::[[User:George Tagtmeier|George Tagtmeier]] ([[User talk:George Tagtmeier|talk]]) 19:13, 30 December 2022 (CST)
 == Inclusion of Statistics ==
@@ Line 118: / Line 127: @@
 :::::My failure to recognize the existence of category winners was an error. The Scobol Solo page isn't exactly notable, and right now it's actually pretty unappealing. If I were better at wikitext that might be something I would work on.
 :::::[[User:George Tagtmeier|George Tagtmeier]] ([[User talk:George Tagtmeier|talk]]) 19:13, 30 December 2022 (CST)

@@ Line 77: / Line 77: @@
 :::::*In the process of you attempting to make the QBWiki better in your sense, you have trampled over the basic bedrock of rules, and violated the wills of at least a few players. None of what I have done comes close to being worthy of being deleted. That was what I meant by the "three sentences"; those were the QBWiki's terms of service. Your batman-like psychosis of what QBWiki should be is distorting your perception of what needs to be included. I see no harm in adding exams run by an organization on quizbowl, and me including them is not some sort of "lunch upset" as you claim.
 ::-[[User:John Augustyn|John Augustyn]] ([[User talk:John Augustyn|talk]]) 23:50, 29 December 2022 (CST)
-== Inclusion of Stastics ==
+:::::If by "the player" you mean the subject of the article, I would completely disagree. Other editors are often better able to make objective articles, and help prevent the self-aggrandizement we see on certain articles.
 The QBWiki is not supposed to be a repository of all statistics. You can list major accomplishments, but this page is too long. Firstly, we should avoid random unprovable estimations, especially when they do not add much to the article. The general bar I have seen for inclusion in IAC matters is finalist or better. An arbitrary mention in a podcast is also not particularly informative. Due to an extremely low number of current events questions at Scobol, I removed that you "won" the category. The page is still likely a bit too long, but this helps quite a bit.
@@ Line 108: / Line 113: @@
 ::::The failure of you to recognize the Scobol Solo category winners and their importance is more than simply an error, particularly when the Scobol Solo page itself is one of the more notable ones on the wiki. A supposition is not the same as a fact. You can also win a category at IPNCT, but I'll put that aside.
 ::::-[[User:John Augustyn|John Augustyn]] ([[User talk:John Augustyn|talk]]) 23:50, 29 December 2022 (CST)

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 It appears that several (all?) of these accomplishments occurred in the middle school division of NHBB; this should be probably be mentioned. I'd also generally recommend separating career sections into "elementary", "middle school", etc. sections so that it's easier to understand the chronology - I'm just going to go ahead and do this since I'm here.  -[[User:Kevin Wang|Kevin Wang]] ([[User talk:Kevin Wang|talk]]) 09:04, 11 February 2021 (CST)
-== Exams ==
+== Exams and Debate on IAC as a "quizbowl orginization"==
 This is possibly more of a general question, but should we really include exams on here? While run by a quizbowl adjacent organization, they are not quiz bowl.
@@ Line 70: / Line 70: @@
 :::By trimming the page, I focused on your actual quizbowl achievements, not exam results and such.[[User:George Tagtmeier|George Tagtmeier]] ([[User talk:George Tagtmeier|talk]]) 16:48, 29 December 2022 (CST)
-== Specifics ==
 The QBWiki is not supposed to be a repository of all statistics. You can list major accomplishments, but this page is too long. Firstly, we should avoid random unprovable estimations, especially when they do not add much to the article. The general bar I have seen for inclusion in IAC matters is finalist or better. An arbitrary mention in a podcast is also not particularly informative. Due to an extremely low number of current events questions at Scobol, I removed that you "won" the category. The page is still likely a bit too long, but this helps quite a bit.
@@ Line 95: / Line 103: @@
 :::I wasn't trying to imply that the award was worthless, based on the statistics it appeared there were very few current events questions. I put won in question marks because in most of the country you cannot win a category in quiz bowl. I suppose this could be different with a solo tournament like Scobol, but depending on what you want to keep, I suppose this could stay.
 :::[[User:George Tagtmeier|George Tagtmeier]] ([[User talk:George Tagtmeier|talk]]) 16:48, 29 December 2022 (CST)

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
 ::I don't think removing seven accomplishments enhances my page.
 ::-[[User:John Augustyn|John Augustyn]] ([[User talk:John Augustyn|talk]]) 19:34, 28 December 2022 (CST)
 == Specifics ==
@@ Line 76: / Line 84: @@
 ::Finally, Low number of current events questions is subjective. In the IHSA format, for example, there are few (from what I've been told around 0.25 - 0.4 questions per game) current events questions. However, considering that there are [https://www.qbwiki.com/wiki/Scobol_Solo#CATEGORY_RECORDS| portions of a QBWiki page] devoted to documenting these category awards, I think that it is an okay contribution to this page. As Jonah stated, all Scobol Solo categories have 1 question each, so saying that this award is worthless presents an inaccurate picture of how the Scobol Solo is run. [[User:John Augustyn|John Augustyn]] ([[User talk:John Augustyn|talk]]) 19:15, 28 December 2022 (CST)

@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 :[[User:Jonah Greenthal|—Jonah]] ([[User talk:Jonah Greenthal|talk]]) 08:31, 27 December 2022 (CST)
-Thank you for the feedback Jonah.
+::Thank you for the feedback Jonah.
 == Specifics ==

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 :Also, with regard to "precedent", that's not necessarily the best concept to apply here for rules compliance because many QBWiki pages are…not ideal. I realize that makes it hard to know what to do, and the forthcoming [https://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26494 clarification of rules and purpose] might help. The [[Quizbowl in Asia]] page is different in that it's aggregating results across many schools and competitions run by different organizations, which other existing tools don't really support in useful ways (and are unlikely to do so), which bolsters the case for using the QBWiki to do it.
 :[[User:Jonah Greenthal|—Jonah]] ([[User talk:Jonah Greenthal|talk]]) 08:31, 27 December 2022 (CST)
 == Specifics ==
@@ Line 52: / Line 54: @@
 :Winning a category at Scobol Solo is a significant accomplishment within the tournament that is recognized at the awards ceremony, and all categories have the same number of questions (one per round, overtime notwithstanding). Whether it's worth a mention on the QBWiki is debatable and I don't really care either way, but putting "won" in quotes seems inordinately and oddly petty. [[User:Jonah Greenthal|—Jonah]] ([[User talk:Jonah Greenthal|talk]]) 13:25, 27 December 2022 (CST)