Talk:Tuhin Chakraborty

From Tuhin:

Paragraph 1: I spoke to the tournament staff before entering this tournament. They explicitly gave me the all-clear provided that my team consisted of college students, which we were. Being part of a specific Quizbowl club was not required. This is not misbehavior. Therefore, please remove this paragraph.

Paragraph 3: I committed no fraud at any point in time. I also make it very clear in my forum response that my motivations were not to minimize and invalidate my teammate (you misquote me here), I just made an honest mistake because I never heard from her during the tournament. I have already apologized to everyone involved. Additionally, I have already stated in my response that ACF and UM Quizbowl have investigated the matter and made no accusations of fraud, lying, etc. If you can find a more reputable source that says otherwise (doubtful, since ACF ran the tournament in question), you need to remove this paragraph. You cite no sources whatsoever here and this section is particularly defamatory.

Paragraph 4: Read my forum response here. I have already demonstrated how the reporter tampered and manipulated evidence regarding their forum post. Unless you can prove otherwise, please remove your words concerning my " previous history of toxic and misogynistic behavior."

Paragraph 5: What false statements regarding ACF, NAQT, and UM Quizbowl? You don't cite any sources to back yourself up on this claim and you should remove this sentence because it itself is false. Also, I made it pretty clear that I defined the reporter's sharing of my personal message as foul and petty, NOT her reporting my alleged misconduct. Please rephrase.

Fixed

I edited the page Tuhin Chakraborty to present a more balanced picture of what happened.

Essentially

A: Tuhin dropped a player from the roster of 2020 ACF Winter. Was this "the brilliance of Tuhin" or an "honest mistake"? I tend to believe in the latter.

B: Tuhin was misogynistic toward his victim. This DID happen, and deserves to be mentioned.

Further necessary changes

From Tuhin:

Thank you for a more balanced portrayal of the incident. However, more needs to be done. Regarding your section titled packet submission affair, where exactly online did you see that I "changed [my] mind" and all that? Please cite relevant sources if you see that this information is online. I forgot to mention this in my initial complaints, but I believe that this section violates the QBwiki privacy policy because it comes from deep within my DMs. Literally all that happened was that I decided to join the tournament late (after the packet submission deadline), so I was put on the C team. Respectfully, your apology section isn't correct: I apologized for leaving someone off the roster, not this. I'm not even sure this is a violation or a wrong of any sorts...

Removed "packet submission affair"

From Shiva:

Upon re-reading the forum posts in question, I think the entire packet submission affair is essentially not a big deal, so I removed the section.

I also moved the apology down to the relevant paragraph.

Comments

I have no problems with changing the article to incorporate a more objective presentation of the discussion as it happened, as it was fairly biased before, but in its current state the article has been erased of much of its actual substance and I will be editing to correct it accordingly.

Shiva:

Thanks for your edits. Overall, I think parts of the article read better; however, this has come at the cost of the actual content. I do not agree with the choice to omit information (that is relevant or otherwise reasonable) from the article. The section of playing on a team unaffiliated with the Michigan team felt very reasonable to leave, if not in the "Misconduct" section. More egregiously, I do not think you should have removed direct quotes of/about Tuhin from the article. Those are things that were both verifiably said and otherwise inaccessible to the public - to remove them is to whitewash the record and to privilege Tuhin's opinion over that of the person who accused them. Considering that you explicitly stated here that you believe your own interpretation of events to be more accurate than what was literally written in the thread I do not think you ought to be making such sweeping redactions.

Additionally, I will note that you can sign your posts with ~~~~, which is the convention for talk pages.

Tuhin:

I notice that you have also cited no sources, either here or in any previous discussions, in support your position on the veracity of various statements. While there is little to be lost by believing your statements regarding 2019 Terrapin, I see no reason to categorically assume that you are acting in the interests of the community by attempting to correct the record, considering your behavior in the relevant incident and the ensuing forum discussions.

In response to your comments on Paragraph 4, I assert that no further evidence of your "previous history of toxic and misogynistic behavior" are needed than your posts themselves and further, that inclusion of direct quotes of said posts is sufficient to prove this to the general audience.

-Kevin Wang (talk) 22:59, 21 May 2021 (CDT)

I really don't think that the QBwiki is the best place for so much detail on this incident; the HSQB misconduct forum makes much more sense and is closer to the actual posts/source material. A shorter summary seems more appropriate with links to more details in the forums.

-Chris C.

A summary is not needed on the forums, as it is sufficient to read the threads in question. An overly concise summary here would necessarily leave out information that can only be accessed by people with forum accounts, as it is in the misconduct forum. Thus, this article preserves as much of the contents of those posts as possible.

-Kevin Wang (talk) 13:24, 23 May 2021 (CDT)

I also think this is an excessive level of detail and should be pared down significantly. It's fine (indeed, probably better) for this article to not have every detail that the forums contain; it would suffice for this article to contain the key points along with information about where details can be found, and it also seems fine that an account (a free, easily creatable one!) is necessary to get all those details. —Jonah (talk) 14:40, 11 September 2021 (CDT)

Sure, I can do this. Kevin Wang (talk) 07:56, 19 October 2021 (CDT)

Hello, Kevin- I genuinely appreciate you taking out much of the hurtful information in this article. While we may never agree on how much of this article is true, I accept your initial description of the incident except the text about the falsehoods. You are correct in stating that my response was overly combative- I later submitted an apology to HSQB for how I said certain things. I was harmed emotionally after being attacked for months and I lashed out. Although HSQB never published my apology and never told me why, I want to emphasize that I AM SORRY (to you, Jonah, and the rest of the QB community) for the aggressive tone I took and my apology statement was approved by the UM Quizbowl organization. However, to the best of my knowledge, I still have to say that I did not intentionally state anything false in my initial statement. As you pointed out, I spent 100+ days writing my response and I even had the University of Michigan Office of Student Conflict Resolution review my piece before I posted it The sources you cite for my repeated falsehoods came from people who had little or nothing to do with the relevant incidents. Erik himself said that his message could be ignored if one wanted to avoid a "he said she said." Regarding Conor, to his credit, he did correct me on a technicality with the email server (I was wrong there- not intentionally though), but that's a really small detail that has nothing to do with what was written about here. Also, one more thing, I don't suppose you could be more generous on the career part of my page? I was in Quizbowl for over 7 years and I found the vast majority of that time successful and personally rewarding- I made nationals every year, made NASAT twice, coached a middle school quizbowl team (Smith Middle School), was an NAQT national All-star, a Michigan history bowl champ, and more. Surely you don't think its right for my career to be defined by one sentence? I would make the edits myself- but I also don't want to be inflammatory.

Tuhin Chakraborty (talk) 03:37, 6 November 2021 (CDT)

Since nobody has responded, I saw fit to make a few changes. I apologize if I overstepped my bounds, but QB allows all contributors to make changes and has no conflict of interest policy- I deserve the right to make changes to my own article- changes that I think are fair. I deleted my career section because it isnt particularly notable or wiki-worthy. I also don't think my 7 year career in Quizbowl should be summarized that way. I added in details to the initial section that are well supported by the forum posts as well as my own statements both on the forums and on this site. I deleted the table because it takes almost all of its statements out of context- as Jonah said, a link to the forums (which is still on this article) should be fine. I am not condoning how I went about responding- but I don't think you should just declare my statements false because other community members say it is- there should be more reputable evidence first right? Kevin and the rest of the community, I know I didn't respond in a respectful way, and again, I apologize for that. But I don't think that's an ethical reason for you to pick out the very worst parts of the forum thread, arrange them in a table, and then call it unbiased. I am of course open to having a conversation about this article's content if you wish.

Tuhin Chakraborty (talk) 05:00, 22 November 2021 (EST)

As per the instructions given at User_talk:Tuhin_Chakraborty, you were not allowed to make changes to your own page. Because you did this anyway, I reverted the changes.

George Tagtmeier (talk) 19:34, 22 November 2021 (CST)