Re: Science Bowl Brouhaha

zundevil <*no_reply_at_yahoogroups.com*> · Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:02:09 -0000

Thx to all who gave their input on this one.  And now, the 
exciting conclusion to "Science Bowl Brouhaha"...

No points.  The student did not correctly answer the question (which 
specifically asked for the number of *grams* in the liter of 
water...apparently presumed to be at 4-degrees C, which is 
reasonable), but rather just gave the mass in incorrect units.  I 
can see this going either way, for sure, but I'm happy with the 
conclusion that we came up with in the room (and which was 
independently corroborated by the overall judge who intervened when 
we appealed to a higher authority).  Outside of the obvious kg != g 
(or, more specifically, 1 != 1000) argument, here are other 
justifications for the decision:

1. Indeed, "kilo" is a prefix that means "one-thousand", but I 
believe I saw somewhere that "kilogram" is actually its own unit.  
This may be selective/faked memory on my part, but I thought it said 
that kg is sort of detached from the "1000 grams" meaning, and has 
taken a life of its own.  It still measures a mass of precisely 1000 
grams, but separating the "kilo" from "kilogram" doesn't hold (if 
the above possible hallucination is true).

2. The "kilogram" part of his answer qualifies as, more-or-less, 
incorrect extraneous information.  The student wouldn't have been 
granted points had he said "1000 kilograms", IOW.  Incidentally, had 
the student answered "kilo" or "M", points wouldn't have been 
awarded.  The jury is still out on "mil".

3. It didn't happen this past year in Science Bowl (which, despite 
its flaws is still a game in which I wish my middle and high schools 
had participated when I was there), but I can conceive of a question 
that reads "How many 
grams are in a kilogram?".  Fundamentally this is a much different 
question from the disputed one in the game, but if the student's 
answer of "1 kilogram" were to be accepted in our game (as meaning, 
identically, "1000 grams"), there is no reason it should not be 
accepted in this hypothetical.  Silly, sure, and they'll probably 
never ask it, but since there's still some knowledge needed to 
answer my hypothetical question, I think it invalidates the 
student's answer from this past year.

Anyways, thx for the discussion and whatnot.  An even worse goof in 
one of the rounds, btw, was when the analogy "H-2-O-2 is to peroxide 
as O-H-negative is to [blank]" was looking specifically 
for "Hydroxyl" or "Hydroxyl Ion" and did not accept nor prompt 
on "Hydroxide".  I'm not sure if it was wrong info or just a hose, 
but either way it was unfortunate.

Jason

P.S. The second Sandia Quizbowl thing happened yesterday, with solid 
novice-esque 4-on-4 action happening.

--- In quizbowl_at_yahoogroups.com, "Blessman, Phil" 
<Phil.Blessman_at_C...> wrote:
> Doesn't "kilo" mean "thousand" so their answer was really "one 
thousand
> gram"? Anyway, "one kilogram" is the mass of one liter of water at 
4 deg
> C (and only then, BTW) so I would hope that this answer was 
acceptable.
> If it was intended to be unacceptable, then there should have been 
a
> special emphasis in the question on what they were looking for 
("Give
> your answer in grams: At 4 deg C, how many grams of water are 
there in a
> liter of water?")
>  
> My 2 cents...
>  
> Phil
> Conserve School Quiz Bowl
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: zundevil [mailto:no_reply_at_yahoogroups.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 3:56 AM
> To: quizbowl_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [quizbowl] Science Bowl Brouhaha
>  
> Since I'm here, I thought I'd relate an unseemly event from this 
> year's Science Bowl.  I don't *think* I posted this back when it 
> happened; I'm sorry if I did.
> 
> (Conveniently, btw, the below situation happened in an elimination-
> round of the playoffs, on the last question of a two-point game, 
on 
> a question worth four points, in the room where I was the judge)
> 
> I don't remember all the words exactly, but the question boiled 
down 
> to:
> 
> "How many grams of water are there in a liter of water?"
> 
> The first team answers "Ten-thousand": wrong, no penalty.
> 
> The second team answers "1 kilogram".  The correct answer 
is "1000" 
> or "1000 grams".  You make the call.
> 
> FWIW, I'm happy with the outcome that our room chose, with the 
> outside help of an official judge.  I'll post what we did to add 
to 
> a discussion, if there even is any.
> 
> Jason