Re: Penn (was Tournament: Brandeis' etc.)

Dan <*m00c0w_at_krazyc0w.yahoo.invalid*> · Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:31:47 -0000

I think Sorice put it best.  Show up at an academic tournament in your
backyard, and then maybe I'll give you some credit.

Last year the Penn team did well at NAQT SCT and ICT in Div II.  I'm
presuming your current A team was entirely Div 2-eligible last year,
since we didn't see you at anything other than junior bird
tournaments.  By your own admission, your A team is good at writing
questions, so why not show up to tournaments when you have the chance?
 Penn was neither at Terrapin NOR DSHIT (a 'junior-bird') tournament,
which are a mere two hours away?  Hell of a lot closer than Brandeis,
IMHO.  We didn't see you at ACF Fall, nor ACF Regionals.  Perhaps our
high school invitational tournament would be more up your alley?  We
write all those questions in-house.

Feel free to spend your money as you wish, though YMMV.  I can
guarantee that you'll see even fewer grad students this year in the
Mid-Atlantic with Maryland losing its entire contingent.

We don't ask our first-year students to write questions until into the
second half of the year, after we've taken some time to cover basic
question-writing guidelines and concepts.  So they suck at writing
questions now?  Spend a little time and help them instead of isolating
them and going to tournaments where they don't have to write. 
Experience is indeed the best teacher, IMHO. And if asking your
members to write 5-6 tossups and bonuses (approx. 1/4 of a packet) is
too much of a burden, then perhaps you need to rethink your
priorities, whatever they may be.

Dan Goff

PS - Penn is always welcome at MAQT events, as are all colleges and
universities wishing to compete.

--- In quizbowl_at_yahoogroups.com, "nicolas_walters" <Sywolf_at_a...>
wrote:
> 
> Eric,
> 
> I wasn't speaking for you, your team, or undergraduates in general. 
> I'm sorry for the fact that you misunderstood me, or that I may
have 
> misrepresented myself. I was only speaking for myself, and my 
> teammates alone. And let me clarify my earlier statement, in case
it 
> was unclear. My A team is definitely capable of writing a good 
> packet. In fact, we wrote two or three last year that I'm quite
proud 
> of. However, beyond the A team, the interest/ability of our other 
> members to write quality questions is not as high. It's often hard
to 
> get them to submit their questions on time, and when they do, I 
> usually have to edit them a lot.
> 
> I'm sure we're going to have some incoming freshmen that are going
to 
> be very talented, but forcing them right into writing questions I 
> still think is a lot to ask. Again, I believe that this is a debate 
> which is not black and white, because everyone is entitled to their 
> own opinions. My team and I just happen to differ with you and your 
> teammates. I think something too that people need to remember is
that 
> at least at my school, a lot of people that do quiz bowl do A LOT
of 
> other activities in addition to having tons of schoolwork. I know 
> that a lot of other schools are probably in the same boat, but I 
> merely point this out to emphasize my earlier point. We have lots
of 
> dedicated members who show up to practices every week, and go to 
> tournaments often. However, asking them to also write 1/4 or 1/2 of
a 
> packet in their free time is often too much of a burden for them 
> relative to their other daily priorities. Again, maybe you'll tell
me 
> that they are not dedicated *enough* to quiz bowl, but I personally 
> sympathize with the fact that our members have many other 
> commitments. Finally, even if you tell me that you'd rather play 
> harder packet submission questions than easy NAQT questions, I
still 
> don't understand the argument against opening up more tournaments. 
> Whether it's CUT-style like Brandeis is doing, or having two 
> divisions like Harvard did with their COTKU Mirror last year, I
just 
> think there are many ways to continually expand the circuit. If you 
> want to tell me that junior birds should be a little tougher, fine. 
> All I'm arguing is to have the greatest number of tournaments open
to 
> the greatest number of people. 
> 
> --Nick Walters
> 
> 
> --- In quizbowl_at_yahoogroups.com, "ekwartler03" <ekwartler_at_h...>
wrote:
> > As one of the undergraduates that you claim to represent, Nick, I 
> > personally resent the implication that we are too weak to write 
> > packets and compete against powerful graduate students.  I am in
a 
> > somewhat similar situation to you in that as a sophomore I am one 
> of 
> > the oldest active members of my team.  My co-president (also a 
> > sophomore) and I have to be the substantial writers and editors
of 
> > all packets that our team writes, and it's hard.  If you want to 
> > talk about a relative dearth of tournaments we can certainly use 
> the 
> > southwest as an example.  Without ACF Fall there are three
academic 
> > tournaments being held in this region this fall.  The first two
are 
> > both planning on using high school NAQT questions, which to some 
> > extent will be good for incoming freshmen, and the third is a 
> mirror 
> > of Chris Frankel's Kickboxer classic tournament being held at UT 
> for 
> > which my co-president and I had to write the region's packet.  We 
> > could have used high school questions for our Kickboxer mirror 
> > instead of going to the trouble of writing a packet, but instead
we 
> > chose to write the packet.  By doing so not only did we learn
from 
> > the question writing but also saved the substantial amount of
money 
> > NAQT questions would have cost us.  I'd also like to note that
your 
> > team (Penn A) converted more of the available points at SNEWT (a 
> > packet sub tourney) than at Brandeis, which used high school 
> > questions.  My team was unable to qualify for the NAQT ICT last 
> > year, and would have been shamed at ACF nationals.  You can say 
> that 
> > my position is one of an amateur, and maybe it is, but I do know 
> for 
> > sure that your implication that as undergraduates the members of
my 
> > team are either incapable or unwilling to do the work necessary
to 
> > better themselves is unfair, and if I were one of your freshmen I 
> > would want the chance to prove myself in the real thing.
> > 
> > -Eric Kwartler
> > Co-President, UT-Austin qb
> > UT Austin class of 2007