I'm still shocked by the bitterness in some responses to my original post. I don't think this thread was ever intended to be about the Penn team. I took over a squad as a freshman that was in shambles, and I'm very happy to say that we came a very long way in two years. There's a reason we only went to junior bird and DII events last year. All the people on our team were FRESHMEN AND SOPHOMORES! Now obviously, our freshmen that were at ICT last year and I are DII ineligible, at least for NAQT tourneys. So yes, you will see us at NAQT Sectionals playing DI this year, and a lot more non-junior bird events. However, as far as going to Maryland...I have no objection to it per se. But perhaps you fail to realize that it's A LOT easier for us to go tournaments in Boston. We take a $39 flight on Air Tran. So it's cheaper, and takes a lot less time than taking a train to DC, a metro to College Park, and then walking on the highway to get to your campus. I know because I did go to the high school tournament you host annually, a few years ago. Again, I have no idea where this conversation is going. All the Penn hating should really stop, because it was never prompted by anything. I think we're talking past each other or something, arguing for different things. People keep telling us we should step up to the plate or whatever, but that's obviously going to happen this year. We're definitely planning to attend Beaver Bonspiel, Harvard's COTKU mirror (if they have it), Virginia's tournament, Bulldogs over Broadway, and maybe Princeton's tourney or ACF Fall. That's obviously not counting the junior birds that we'll send teams to as well. So we're definitely going to step up the plate, as other teams keep suggesting that we do. But I will still note that there's only one team that can enjoy playing at the level of Bonspiel let's say, or BoB. And that's our A team, not counting any really talented freshmen that might join our squad in a few weeks. So the bulk of our team will continue wanting to attend non-packet submission, junior bird events. That doesn't mean that I won't try to help new people and some prior members from getting more practice writing questions. I'd love to hear how you run question-writing workshops, and whether you make people write questions even if there's no tournament coming up? Also, I really have no fear of grad students. I never really mentioned them as my biggest problem with our region. Rather, this whole thread started because of the proliferation of junior bird events in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast, which I just happened to note could be opened up for all undergrads. So in conclusion, I have nothing against non-junior bird packet submission events. We definitely will go to a bunch of them this year. However, we will also send teams to junior bird events since they remain the most appealing to our team given the ages of our players. Also, I will keep insisting that more tournaments are opened up to non 1st and 2nd year players, through two divisions or CUT- style eligibility. Still waiting for someone to make the argument against that, instead of flaming Penn's team for no good reason. --Nick Walters --- In quizbowl_at_yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <m00c0w_at_l...> wrote: > I think Sorice put it best. Show up at an academic tournament in your > backyard, and then maybe I'll give you some credit. > > Last year the Penn team did well at NAQT SCT and ICT in Div II. I'm > presuming your current A team was entirely Div 2-eligible last year, > since we didn't see you at anything other than junior bird > tournaments. By your own admission, your A team is good at writing > questions, so why not show up to tournaments when you have the chance? > Penn was neither at Terrapin NOR DSHIT (a 'junior-bird') tournament, > which are a mere two hours away? Hell of a lot closer than Brandeis, > IMHO. We didn't see you at ACF Fall, nor ACF Regionals. Perhaps our > high school invitational tournament would be more up your alley? We > write all those questions in-house. > > Feel free to spend your money as you wish, though YMMV. I can > guarantee that you'll see even fewer grad students this year in the > Mid-Atlantic with Maryland losing its entire contingent. > > We don't ask our first-year students to write questions until into the > second half of the year, after we've taken some time to cover basic > question-writing guidelines and concepts. So they suck at writing > questions now? Spend a little time and help them instead of isolating > them and going to tournaments where they don't have to write. > Experience is indeed the best teacher, IMHO. And if asking your > members to write 5-6 tossups and bonuses (approx. 1/4 of a packet) is > too much of a burden, then perhaps you need to rethink your > priorities, whatever they may be. > > Dan Goff > > PS - Penn is always welcome at MAQT events, as are all colleges and > universities wishing to compete. > > > > --- In quizbowl_at_yahoogroups.com, "nicolas_walters" <Sywolf_at_a...> > wrote: > > > > Eric, > > > > I wasn't speaking for you, your team, or undergraduates in general. > > I'm sorry for the fact that you misunderstood me, or that I may > have > > misrepresented myself. I was only speaking for myself, and my > > teammates alone. And let me clarify my earlier statement, in case > it > > was unclear. My A team is definitely capable of writing a good > > packet. In fact, we wrote two or three last year that I'm quite > proud > > of. However, beyond the A team, the interest/ability of our other > > members to write quality questions is not as high. It's often hard > to > > get them to submit their questions on time, and when they do, I > > usually have to edit them a lot. > > > > I'm sure we're going to have some incoming freshmen that are going > to > > be very talented, but forcing them right into writing questions I > > still think is a lot to ask. Again, I believe that this is a debate > > which is not black and white, because everyone is entitled to their > > own opinions. My team and I just happen to differ with you and your > > teammates. I think something too that people need to remember is > that > > at least at my school, a lot of people that do quiz bowl do A LOT > of > > other activities in addition to having tons of schoolwork. I know > > that a lot of other schools are probably in the same boat, but I > > merely point this out to emphasize my earlier point. We have lots > of > > dedicated members who show up to practices every week, and go to > > tournaments often. However, asking them to also write 1/4 or 1/2 of > a > > packet in their free time is often too much of a burden for them > > relative to their other daily priorities. Again, maybe you'll tell > me > > that they are not dedicated *enough* to quiz bowl, but I personally > > sympathize with the fact that our members have many other > > commitments. Finally, even if you tell me that you'd rather play > > harder packet submission questions than easy NAQT questions, I > still > > don't understand the argument against opening up more tournaments. > > Whether it's CUT-style like Brandeis is doing, or having two > > divisions like Harvard did with their COTKU Mirror last year, I > just > > think there are many ways to continually expand the circuit. If you > > want to tell me that junior birds should be a little tougher, fine. > > All I'm arguing is to have the greatest number of tournaments open > to > > the greatest number of people. > > > > --Nick Walters > > > > > > --- In quizbowl_at_yahoogroups.com, "ekwartler03" <ekwartler_at_h...> > wrote: > > > As one of the undergraduates that you claim to represent, Nick, I > > > personally resent the implication that we are too weak to write > > > packets and compete against powerful graduate students. I am in > a > > > somewhat similar situation to you in that as a sophomore I am one > > of > > > the oldest active members of my team. My co-president (also a > > > sophomore) and I have to be the substantial writers and editors > of > > > all packets that our team writes, and it's hard. If you want to > > > talk about a relative dearth of tournaments we can certainly use > > the > > > southwest as an example. Without ACF Fall there are three > academic > > > tournaments being held in this region this fall. The first two > are > > > both planning on using high school NAQT questions, which to some > > > extent will be good for incoming freshmen, and the third is a > > mirror > > > of Chris Frankel's Kickboxer classic tournament being held at UT > > for > > > which my co-president and I had to write the region's packet. We > > > could have used high school questions for our Kickboxer mirror > > > instead of going to the trouble of writing a packet, but instead > we > > > chose to write the packet. By doing so not only did we learn > from > > > the question writing but also saved the substantial amount of > money > > > NAQT questions would have cost us. I'd also like to note that > your > > > team (Penn A) converted more of the available points at SNEWT (a > > > packet sub tourney) than at Brandeis, which used high school > > > questions. My team was unable to qualify for the NAQT ICT last > > > year, and would have been shamed at ACF nationals. You can say > > that > > > my position is one of an amateur, and maybe it is, but I do know > > for > > > sure that your implication that as undergraduates the members of > my > > > team are either incapable or unwilling to do the work necessary > to > > > better themselves is unfair, and if I were one of your freshmen I > > > would want the chance to prove myself in the real thing. > > > > > > -Eric Kwartler > > > Co-President, UT-Austin qb > > > UT Austin class of 2007
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